I was unable get the old avatars reimported. Regretfully, you will have to upload your avatar again. Please report any issues here,.

2009 KTM 250 XC-F engine project

DAMN maintenance and repair thread; including Farkle Fests! :boohoo:
smdub
DAMN Poohba
Posts: 931
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:21 pm
Contact:

2009 KTM 250 XC-F engine project

Post by smdub »

Bought an '09 KTM 250 XC-F project that has a known leakdown problem. I pulled the head off and it looks like it sat long enough for the seats to rust a little. Looks like someone had recently replaced the intake valves w/ Titnium ones recently (intake valves are pretty clean and ZERO carbon on the piston). The exh valves weren't touched and are fairly ugly. I need someone to tell me if the guides are still good (I can't find a spec) and to regrind the seats/valves. Probably replace the exh valves. Not looking to spend a fortune just get it good and repliable. Will put new piston rings in it at a minimum if the cyl and piston skirt measure ok.

Can anyone recommend a reputable place to do headwork?
Last edited by smdub on Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Stephen (not Steve) - '08 Monster S2R1000 / '20 Husky 701LR / KTM '20 500 EXC / '17 150 XC-W / '21 E-XC / '21 890R / '19 Sherco 300FST / Sur-Ron LBX / Segway X160 / Sur-Ron Ultra Bee
jgreene
DAMN Expert
Posts: 186
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:23 am
Contact:

Re: Need head machined - Where?

Post by jgreene »

When it comes to heads and valves, I would go to Randy Mann, Fastmann Racing in Mercersburg, PA. He has been doing heads for over 20 years.
Member R&T Club, and GMER
smdub
DAMN Poohba
Posts: 931
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Need head machined - Where?

Post by smdub »

Thanks. I'll give him a call.
A friend suggested Heavy Duty Racing down in Stafford VA. Will call them too.
Stephen (not Steve) - '08 Monster S2R1000 / '20 Husky 701LR / KTM '20 500 EXC / '17 150 XC-W / '21 E-XC / '21 890R / '19 Sherco 300FST / Sur-Ron LBX / Segway X160 / Sur-Ron Ultra Bee
smdub
DAMN Poohba
Posts: 931
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:21 pm
Contact:

Re: 2009 KTM 250 XC-F engine project

Post by smdub »

Anyway... I got the head machined, new exh valves, all new valve springs and some other small bits. Measured the piston & cyl and decided the former was worn enough to warrant replacement 'while I was in there'. Ordered a new Vertex piston and a Wiseco ring compressor. Everything finally came in and I've been working on it for the last two nights. Has taken a bit of time to dial in the valve shims as I'm starting from scratch. Tonight I got everything torqued down and cam timing set (small scare there as the chain had slipped into the case enough to skip a tooth on one side and then the chain wasn't 'long enough' to go over the cams.)

I checked the valve clearances a final time since it now all fully torqued for the first time. Looked like I could go up one step on an intake and needed to drop at least one step on an exhaust. Well, lifting the exh follower the shim must have stuck to it and missed my magnet. Well, I heard it fall and bounce. Some expletives were muttered. Can't find it. Pulled the cams. Still can't find it. Finally pulled the lower cam carrier. Still can't find it. Its not caught in the valve springs either. That means it bounced through the lower cam carrier hole into the case. Some SERIOUS expletives were used. :censored: :censored: :censored:

I just went from "I might have this thing running by this weekend :cheers: " to "F my life and can I set this thing on fire? :frustrated: "

Am too mad to work on it now so I gave up for the night and poured myself a burbon. Have calmed down enough to read the manual and figure I can probably pull the waterpump impeller and then the whole right side cover to get to the bottom of the cam chain and gears.
Stephen (not Steve) - '08 Monster S2R1000 / '20 Husky 701LR / KTM '20 500 EXC / '17 150 XC-W / '21 E-XC / '21 890R / '19 Sherco 300FST / Sur-Ron LBX / Segway X160 / Sur-Ron Ultra Bee
User avatar
gots_a_sol
DAMN Grand Poohba
Posts: 1011
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:08 am
Contact:

Re: 2009 KTM 250 XC-F engine project

Post by gots_a_sol »

That sucks a lot, but at least you know it happened and didn't carry on/try to start it.
-Joe.

GMER/WATR member
'17 Beta 250RR/RE
'09 Husky WR177
'17 Oset 20.0
smdub
DAMN Poohba
Posts: 931
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:21 pm
Contact:

Re: 2009 KTM 250 XC-F engine project

Post by smdub »

This may have a silver lining? Got the oil drained and water pump impeller off this morning. Its pretty ugly and needs replacing. Several bits chipped off. I'll back flush the rest of the system in case the parts ended up in there.
Attachments
20210415_broken_impeller.jpg
Stephen (not Steve) - '08 Monster S2R1000 / '20 Husky 701LR / KTM '20 500 EXC / '17 150 XC-W / '21 E-XC / '21 890R / '19 Sherco 300FST / Sur-Ron LBX / Segway X160 / Sur-Ron Ultra Bee
smdub
DAMN Poohba
Posts: 931
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:21 pm
Contact:

Re: 2009 KTM 250 XC-F engine project

Post by smdub »

Shim located and recovered
Resizer_16186629841070.jpg
Stephen (not Steve) - '08 Monster S2R1000 / '20 Husky 701LR / KTM '20 500 EXC / '17 150 XC-W / '21 E-XC / '21 890R / '19 Sherco 300FST / Sur-Ron LBX / Segway X160 / Sur-Ron Ultra Bee
smdub
DAMN Poohba
Posts: 931
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:21 pm
Contact:

Re: 2009 KTM 250 XC-F engine project

Post by smdub »

Have this thing bolted back together and in the frame. Its sort of trying to start but getting a lot of backfires. The exhaust header seems 'loose' on both the head pipe and the muffler. Is there some sort of graphite gasket that is supposed to go on there? The parts diagram shows nothing. Hard to believe it doesn't have a huge exh leak w/o some sort of gasket at each end.
Stephen (not Steve) - '08 Monster S2R1000 / '20 Husky 701LR / KTM '20 500 EXC / '17 150 XC-W / '21 E-XC / '21 890R / '19 Sherco 300FST / Sur-Ron LBX / Segway X160 / Sur-Ron Ultra Bee
smdub
DAMN Poohba
Posts: 931
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:21 pm
Contact:

Re: 2009 KTM 250 XC-F engine project

Post by smdub »

Ok, I can't get this :censored: thing to start. It appears to have fuel. It has spark. I've double checked the cam timing. At TDC the flywheel magnet is directly centered on the pickup coil. While cranking it will exhaust pop every 10-20 strokes. If I crack the throttle a little it sometimes seems to crank a tiny bit faster, like its trying to fire but the revs never pickup. If I crack the throttle full open it slows back down. So seems like the fuel is doing something. The exh manifold is getting hot. I ohmed out the coil primary & secondary per manual and its ok. Spark seems pretty decent. I'm missing something...
Stephen (not Steve) - '08 Monster S2R1000 / '20 Husky 701LR / KTM '20 500 EXC / '17 150 XC-W / '21 E-XC / '21 890R / '19 Sherco 300FST / Sur-Ron LBX / Segway X160 / Sur-Ron Ultra Bee
smdub
DAMN Poohba
Posts: 931
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:21 pm
Contact:

Re: 2009 KTM 250 XC-F engine project

Post by smdub »

I think I'm narrowing down the list of things that can be wrong on this. Valve clearances are still within spec. I'm still betting its the timing.

I have discovered the CDI gets its power, not from the battery, but a second coil on the stator. So you can't check timing by pulling the cover off and shining a timing light at the flywheel as that pulls the stator off and the CDI doesn't fire. Grrrr. So I pulled the valve cover off, painted a white mark on the intake cam line (that is horiz when at TDC), and it appears to be firing slightly ATDC when cranking. There are 28 teeth on the cam gear so each is 720deg/28=26deg. Its not a full tooth late, so lets call it 15deg ATDC. I would have expected ~15deg BTDC as a typical number for most engines near idle (though the CDI might retard a little during cranking to prevent kickback but anything ATDC seems way late.)

So I laid the bike over, removed the L side cover, and impacted the flywheel nut off. The keyway appears to be 'behind' TDC. I can't tell where the woodruf key slot is on the crank but a ton of internet sleuthing finds some 2009 250 4-stroke crank pics. The keys on both side of the crank REALLY look like they are perfectly lined up w/ TDC. So if my flywheel keyway looks 'late' the flywheel key might be sheared. I would have thought this would be improbable but it recently happened to a buddy w/ a 2012 Husky TE310. The timing light showing ATDC would seem to confirm that hunch too. I don't have much else to go on so will order a M26x1 flywheel puller (and new key just in case) and confirm. If I could just find a good pic of where the rotor magnet was supposed to be at TDC I wouldn't have to do this. But I can't find such info on the web.
Stephen (not Steve) - '08 Monster S2R1000 / '20 Husky 701LR / KTM '20 500 EXC / '17 150 XC-W / '21 E-XC / '21 890R / '19 Sherco 300FST / Sur-Ron LBX / Segway X160 / Sur-Ron Ultra Bee
Post Reply