Renewable Energy (RE) Issues coming

[Firebolter]

Okay, this is not a RE bashing thread, I am trying to point out all of the pitfalls coming. Alot of us have said this for years now, they rush to get something but they don't plan for the after-

I read a story the other day from a recycle expert in California and he was discussing how when Solar panels first started to take off roughly 20-25 years ago, the state gave all of these subsidies to get folks to buy and install solar panels. The average panel is a 20-25 year life span and they cannot be just thrown away, they have to be re-cycled properly and contain toxic materials. Now you have millions of these panels coming to the end of their life and no plan how to handle them. You can't just dig a hole and bury them, well ya could but-

Then I read this story
https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/ ... re-vehicle

So what happens when the battery your car has dies and there is no replacement? Granted the car in the story is 9 years old, but alot of people keep vehicles for years and/or only buy used, so what happens to all of these vehicles when you no longer can get batteries for them? Just crush them? Nope, they are toxic and will have to be handled correctly to keep from creating an environmental issue which is counter to what EV vehicles are suppose to be, clean- If someone comes up with a battery rebuild business, you could make a fortune in the future, assuming you could get the materials you need to re-build them.

Again, not knocking EV's, they are cool and inevitable, but maybe more effort needs to be put into design of batteries that can be re-built, or recycled in a way that is cheaper and cost effective. I am sure someone is working on this issue, but we are jumping to get them out there without a "after" plan. Like alot of things, no thought was put into the after only the pretty up front "Green" which in my opinion is a joke today because we only focused on the immediate use and not the after life of these designs-

[Joker]

Green is what they say is green, hence EU deeming natural gas and nuclear as "green". Forget the "and then what." Anyone else notice the brown paper bag making a come back for sustainability, wait deforestation, wait no, whats the new thing again?

https://www.instituteforenergyresearch. ... wer-green/

[Firebolter]

Well I guess you could say Nuclear energy is green, until there is a spill

Think they are having to say that so they can justify use easier with the population?

And the paper bag thing? Yup, I am okay with that, BUT PAPER STRAWS ARE EFFIN STUPID! They last like 3-4 sips! I have a whole pile of "real" straws at work and more people come bum them from me as our cafe only has paper ones now-

[Firebolter]

Interesting point in the article you posted Joker as it pertains to the EPA fighting with the TVA and lines up with what I read in the other article. hummm?

"Unfortunately, EPA’s accounting when it looks at wind and solar as cheaper and cleaner is tainted because EPA is not considering the cost of expensive batteries as back up to the wind and solar units when the wind is not blowing and the sun is not shining. Also, EPA is not considering the issues with dismantling the wind and solar units and recapitalizing their construction when their 20 to 25 year lifetime is over. Wind blades are so large that special facilities are needed to dispose of them and solar units contain toxic substances that need to be handled carefully. And, the lifetime of wind and solar units is only half that of gas, coal and nuclear plants. According to TVA, “Financial and system analysis indicate a [combined-cycle] gas plant is the best overall solution to serve low-cost, reliable, and cleaner energy to the TVA power system.”"

[Rut Row]

I'm waiting on the gignormous tax increase to pay for improving the grid to handle all the EVs that have been mandated.

[smdub]

So what happens when the battery your car has dies and there is no replacement?

Same thing as when the engine/transmission in your old car dies and you need a replacement: You buy used. Its been demonstrated that EV batteries are living 200-300kmi. The million mile tesla has had two battery replacements.
When the wife's Boxster trans took a shit I literally bought the only used one available nationwide. That one lasted less than a month. It was unrepairable. I had to sell the car for parts. Break a KTM 9xx curved radiator and you have a paperweight. There are no replacements avail. This problem isn't limited to EVs.

I'm waiting on the gignormous tax increase to pay for improving the grid to handle all the EVs that have been mandated.

Grid needs to be updated but not for EVs. Could convert EVERY car in the US to EV and as long as you charge at night (like most do), the grid will handle it. There is ~30% excess capacity every evening.
https://www.eia.gov/electricity/gridmon ... /US48/US48
W/ bidirectional chargers like are now becoming avail (V2G = vehicle to grid), EVs will even be able to sell some of your excess energy during the day to make a little money and stabilize the exiting grid via peak shaving. Rooftop solar is already improving grid stability w/ power company control in the newest units. They can be commanded to produce VARs (instead of pure Watts) and turn down or change ramp rates as needed. They even have the ability to override strict islanding limits to help ride through brown-outs. EVs and powerwalls will be able to do this and more.

That OPs article is disingenuous. "Wind blades are so large that special facilities are needed to dispose of them". Umm, they're just carbon fiber. They are EASILY cut into shorter pcs for transport/disposal. No one would propose picking up and moving a coal plant to the dump at the end of its life intact. Uhh, they take it apart and cut stuff up. Modern solar cells also have very little toxic metals in them. Some articles refer to ancient Cadmium Sulfide cells. No one does that anymore. Its pretty easy to recycle the cells themselves once you remove them from the glass panels. Solar cell MANUFACTURE does use some pretty ugly chemicals.

[Firebolter]

we are talking about all of the panels and such from 25 years ago dude, not the new stuff. That WILL BE A PROBLEM to dispose of the older tech panels. The same gov that pushed them on people won't let them be put in landfills, so a new industry will be created to clean the so called clean energy components so they can be greenly disposed of. And I bet you there will be a tax or fee to have them disposed of. How clean! A clean energy pyramid scheme-

Funny you use GOV website with their stats and info, those idiots don't have a clue. Incompetence and stupidity are why I retired from GOV service, they mostly are idiots in charge cause they would never make it in the private sector. For ecvery one good Gov employee, there are 2-3 jusrt there to collect an easy check.

In today's world, it takes 10 times the energy to charge a car at home than it does to cool your home. Not too efficient really-What you save in gas you'll pay in increased electric consumption. Alot of the so called "free" charging stations are starting to charge money to charge your car. Not to mention there simply are not enough stations to handle everyone going to EV's. It will take years to address that.

No one doubts EVENTUALLY (like 1 decade or more) it will get better, but we are not ready to just jump to EV's regardless of what Pete Buttiboy sezs, like he is an expert on anything -well he is but this is a family friendly site

All I know is my electric bill has jumped OVER 100% in the last 4 months. I have not increased my usage, in fact tried to use less. I cannot imagine what it would be if I had to plug in my car everyday. For the next few years, normal people if they go EV (Not Hollywood eff heads and coastal elites) will have to choose, cool house or juice for your hoopty?

[aai]

I remember Biden saying something about making all government cars (600,000) EV back in 2021, that would be a good start. Then they should tackle the dense population like New York greater area and the City (about 4.5 million cars) that would be a good show and let them deal with the inconveniences of the daily grid lock going on due to all the upfitting of charging cars in skyscraper population. That leaves 260 million cars left registered in the US that need to be converted. Not in my life time so not too worried about it. But I did buy first solar generator and enjoy the 24/7 running fridge in my truck. Jackary 300 thanks Amazon Prime


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[Wingfixer]

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/ ... re-vehicle
Cliff notes, family buys used electric car for 11k, used car poops battery after 6 months of driving. Replacement battery costs 14k but is not available.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... -landfills
Cliff notes, windmill blades can not be recycled so they just bury them in landfills.

Electric transportation is inevitable, to some degree. But ramming it down the collective populations throat and rushing into technologies that aren't ready for mass use will damage any advantage they might have to the environment and to the economy.

[smdub]

we are talking about all of the panels and such from 25 years ago dude, not the new stuff. That WILL BE A PROBLEM to dispose of the older tech panels.

No it won't. I've been in this business that long. There simply weren't that many panels made that long ago. We have some 35yr old panels on the roof of the office. The amount of NiCad power tools simply disposed ***FAR*** exceeds the amont of panels ever made. Is it still a problem? Yes. Is it the problem that it is made out to be in certain outlets? No. Its blown out of proportion like semiauto rifle bans when they, statistically, aren't even a drop in the bucket when it comes to murders.
There WILL be a tax. On everything. The EU has pushed recycling/disposal costs to be included in the orig price of the item. Cars have to have their lifetime costs included. This is a good thing IMO. Levels the playing field.

Funny you use GOV website with their stats and info, those idiots don't have a clue.

Do you even read bro? :) That is simple real time data of the amount of power generated in the US. Do the math )I think I've done it here once before in a thread.) There is enough power capacity and distribution TODAY to convert all US passenger cars. Simple fact. Yet, you jump to a strawman argument over govt incompetence (which is also fact and no one will disagree with. But still a strawman)

In today's world, it takes 10 times the energy to charge a car at home than it does to cool your home. Not too efficient really

Avg person drives 26mi/day (I had a link but closed the tab)
Tesla model 3 uses ~0.25kWh/mi * 26 = 6.5kWh/day * 30days = 195kWh/mo
Price of electricity is ~0.15/kWh. Distribution about doubles that. $0.30*195=$58.50/mo
So w/ your 10x figure: You're telling me you cool your house for $5.80/mo? BULLSHIT! You pulled numbers out of your ass. It actually CHEAPER to charge your electric car than to cool your home in the summer.
Actually, average US home consumption is a little over 10,000kWh annually. /12 = 833kWh. 195/833=23%. It takes only a quarter of your typical home electric bill to charge your car. 1/4. Not 10x. You are off by a factor of 40.
And charging your car at home is REALLY efficient actually. Its costs about 3x less that the avg gas vehicle monthly bill. There are a LOT less emissions from a Coal/Natgas powerplant than a typ tailpipe too.

I get it you are mad at the govt. They are incompetent and do things for all the wrong reasons. But that doesn't change the facts: Solar/Wind/EVs today make economic (and environmental) sense TODAY. Don't let some some blowhard taint that reality. (and that includes right wing nutjobs who have their head in the sand just as much as the ones on the left do.)