New ULTRA Bee

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phoo
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Re: New ULTRA Bee

Post by phoo »

smdub wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 11:38 am
phoo wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:04 am The Stark Varg has ...
Wrong thread :)
Nope. I was responding to your mention of the Stark Varg up above. :-P


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Re: New ULTRA Bee

Post by Bucho »

Stephen and I gave his new Ultrabee a good offroad test today. Road it alongside his KTM Eride too.

The Ultrabee feels really good! The throttle worked really well for me. The KTM has a really long throttle twist, you really had to try to lift the front. The Ultra felt really snappy in comparison.
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Re: New ULTRA Bee

Post by Bucho »

Some bar risers and a proper 21/18” wheelset and that thing is ready to rip



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Re: New ULTRA Bee

Post by smdub »

Quick update.

Dan and I rode Eagle Bay two weekends ago. I rode the UB and used 60% of the battery in ~16mi so it won't make two laps :( The fork is really hard. The rear end really wallows. Rode the spare KTM E on the second lap (short story: I bought another one that was too good a deal to pass up.) It has nice suspension work and a tall custom seat but the bars are too low so its uncomfortable to ride long term. My elbow and shoulder joints hurt like hell at the end. It was tough to drive back home. I chalked it up to doing 2 laps (which I've never done before) and the heat.

Took the UB and my orig KTM E to Peters Mill/Taskers yesterday. Camped Sat night and got an early start Sun and rode the UB in the morning on the Peters Mill side. In a nutshell: It sucks! :censored: The fork has too much high speed compression damping or something. In the rocks its BRUTAL. By the 10 min mark I'm on already complaining my arms hurt. Messing w/ the adjustments does nothing. I did dial up the compression and rebound of the shock at an early break and that seemed to mostly fix the wallowing. It super fun/playful on the smooth connectors but horrible in the serious stuff. I scratched a fork tube at the end of the ride (its literally dripping oil now) so it has to come apart for seals and get that polished. Will look at the shim stackup when I have it apart. ECR is working on a revalve but don't have it avail yet. I got down to 4% battery. Dan was blinking red most of the ride back from the far end. We were both in limp mode. So range is quite similar. I think we got 24mi in the morning? The UB has a short wheelbase and its quite obvious when climbing (was horrible on the power line climb.) Electrics are cheater bikes in the hard stuff but the UB just wants to spin or wheelie. Long story short it's going to need a lot of tinkering to really be the lightweight 'KTM killer' I thought it was going to be :(

After lunch, I pulled out my KTM E and we headed off on the Taskers side to find the 495 trail. Its immediately apparent the KTM is LIGHTYEARS better to ride in the rocks. You can just pick a direction downhill and go through stuff w/o drama. Anyway, we find 495 and go up it. At the top I was basically in heatstroke stage. We sat at the bridge a while and cooled off. For the first time in my life I had thoughts of throwing up.

Anyway, had a good time with friends. About 32mi for the day. One of the guys had never been to that area. Will need to go back in the fall when its a bit cooler. But really disappointed w/ the UB.
Stephen (not Steve) - '20 Husky 701LR / KTM '20 500 EXC / '17 150 XC-W / '21 E-XC / '21 890R / '19 Sherco 300FST / Sur-Ron LBX / Segway X160 / Sur-Ron Ultra Bee
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Re: New ULTRA Bee

Post by juddspaintballs »

That's good news (for me)! I guess I'll hold my money and wait on a better e-bike in the future.
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Re: New ULTRA Bee

Post by Bucho »

Sorry to hear about the UB. It felt good at another ride, but I guess it wasnt really rocky there
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Re: New ULTRA Bee

Post by Boom Boom »

Stephen have you researched the new offerings from EM having a clutch and overall batt range? They offer that adventure based model (still trials platform). My beef with the trials is it needs at least a couple speed gear box. Having the ability to go from zero to 40 in a whiskey throttle does not work do well when in tight trials situations. They have upped the quality offerings with them like suspension same as my current trials bike. Gas Gas had a e trials bike with gears and clutch before folding and KTM taking over. I had hopes KTM would blow the dust off and bring that to the public.
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Re: New ULTRA Bee

Post by Firebolter »

That is the one shortcoming of Ebikes is slow speed ability to modulate the power. I am sure they are getting there but yeah, sometimes you have to be ready when you whack it. Not as forgiving as ICE for slow speed work, for now anyway. Hitting logs just right is harder on Ebikes, for me anyway-
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Re: New ULTRA Bee

Post by smdub »

Boom Boom wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:41 am Stephen have you researched the new offerings from EM having a clutch and overall batt range? They offer that adventure based model (still trials platform). My beef with the trials is it needs at least a couple speed gear box. Having the ability to go from zero to 40 in a whiskey throttle does not work do well when in tight trials situations. They have upped the quality offerings with them like suspension same as my current trials bike. Gas Gas had a e trials bike with gears and clutch before folding and KTM taking over. I had hopes KTM would blow the dust off and bring that to the public.
The EM Escape is a trials bike w/ a seat. Its pretty old/low tech for what you get. 48V (the Surrons are 60V and 72V, the KTM is ~250V.) Only 175mm of travel too. The Light Bee is 200mm and the UltraBee and KTM are 250mm. Only a 2.7kWh battery (vs 4kWh on both surrons and KTM) so its range is going to be ~30% less in the same conditions. So as a trials bike (w/ a seat) its fine but it really can't compete as an enduro/woods bike.

Clutch can be electronicly simulated (like some of the EMs do.) Aftermarket motor controllers can also do progressive brake/clutch switch regen which is very much like a clutch to stop the 'whiskey throttle' moment. AFAIK, no one is doing that OEM yet though. Aftermarket controllers can set speed/torque/accel limits in different modes which help w/ the 'oh crap' moment too. I do that on kiddos little SurRon.

I don't want to diss on the UltraBee too much. It is hands down a better motorcycle than the Light Bee (unless you are < 5'4" tall). Bigger, more power, real suspension, real brakes, more clearance for real tires, etc. I have less $$$ in the UB than my modded LB (though may get close when I'm done w/ it.) Just the front fork valving needs fixing something serious for rocky/rooty terrain. We rode it at Bucho's and it seemed fine.

I got my UB for $5400 delivered in the first round (and a 6mo wait from china.) They are now close to $7k delivered. It was a good buy at $5.4 but you can find used KTM Es at the current price so I don't think its worth it unless they come back down in price.
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Re: New ULTRA Bee

Post by smdub »

Firebolter wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 11:00 am That is the one shortcoming of Ebikes is slow speed ability to modulate the power. I am sure they are getting there but yeah, sometimes you have to be ready when you whack it. Not as forgiving as ICE for slow speed work, for now anyway. Hitting logs just right is harder on Ebikes, for me anyway-
I think its the exact opposite. Hard slow speed stuff is SOOOO much easier on a good electric. Electrics are 'cheater bikes' at the White Whale @ Kairos, 495 @ Taskers, log hops, etc. They just make butter smooth and consistent torque from a stop. Many electrics deliver power differently than gas so it takes some getting used to going back and forth. The UB has a very 'gas like' throttle response from the factory. Very different than the KTM E which is ultra linear. I think linear is the better long-term plan but it makes it very hard for someone used to gas bikes to just jump on it and go. As much as I love the KTM it does make jumping back and forth from one of the gas bikes give me some pucker factor moments until I get used to it again.

The aforementioned 'whiskey throttle' problem is real though. Instinctively pulling the left side lever doesn't shut down any bike but a stock Light Bee. I had bruised ribs at one point learning this. The industry really needs to integrate the LHRB into progressive regen/simulated clutch.
Stephen (not Steve) - '20 Husky 701LR / KTM '20 500 EXC / '17 150 XC-W / '21 E-XC / '21 890R / '19 Sherco 300FST / Sur-Ron LBX / Segway X160 / Sur-Ron Ultra Bee
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