New ULTRA Bee

General BS :bull: and other irrelevant chit-chat :kumbaya:
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Re: New ULTRA Bee

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Another goofy thing: It uses a common 520 chain. (vs the 420 of the Light Bee.) WTF did they do that? Its massive overkill. I'm now realizing that a 58T 520 rear sprocket is going to be a monster. Due to the smaller pitch, the 60T on the Light Bee isn't any bigger than the Ultra's 46T stock. I suspect a 420 chain conversion will come along shortly.

I does have room for big rear tires (big improvement over the Light Bee). Looks like even a 120/90-18 will fit. Sam already has the aftermarket 21/18 wheel setup on his. They are OOS at the moment or I'd have put a set on order already. Though the wheels are much beefier than the LB. Everything is 'moto sized'. Brakes, spokes, rims, etc. No bicycle parts the LB uses. As Bucho said, its a more 'substantial' bike.
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Re: New ULTRA Bee

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Not sure if you guys know but JTs is becoming a Stark Varg dealer
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Re: New ULTRA Bee

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Rut Row wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:51 am Not sure if you guys know but JTs is becoming a Stark Varg dealer
Not that I can afford one, but thats cool.
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Re: New ULTRA Bee

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Rut Row wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:51 am Not sure if you guys know but JTs is becoming a Stark Varg dealer
The 80HP version of it claims more torque than my wife's BMW X5 M50 (over 600 ft.lbs). At 260 lbs it's not quite as light as, say, KTM enduro bikes but dang, I have to wonder about how you'd ride a dirt bike with that much power? Is the intended use MX?
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Re: New ULTRA Bee

Post by Bucho »

Twist wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:53 am
Rut Row wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:51 am Not sure if you guys know but JTs is becoming a Stark Varg dealer
The 80HP version of it claims more torque than my wife's BMW X5 M50 (over 600 ft.lbs). At 260 lbs it's not quite as light as, say, KTM enduro bikes but dang, I have to wonder about how you'd ride a dirt bike with that much power? Is the intended use MX?
Yes, its for MX.

Most of moto world isnt very accepting of electrics. Making a badazz performance bike is the way to prove electrics have a serious place in the dirtbike world
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Re: New ULTRA Bee

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Twist wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:53 am The 80HP version of it claims more torque than my wife's BMW X5 M50 (over 600 ft.lbs). At 260 lbs it's not quite as light as, say, KTM enduro bikes but dang, I have to wonder about how you'd ride a dirt bike with that much power? Is the intended use MX?
Not an apples to apples comparison. Many/most elecric bikes are measuring rear wheel torque. If you do the same with your X5 w/ its ~5.5 ratio 1st gear and ~3.6 rear end, you'd end up with 600lbft*5.5*3.6 = 12,000 lbft at the wheels.

Truth is, most liter bikes incl your 1250GS make more rear wheel torque than electrics when comaring apples to apples. The electric makes it instantly, at zero rpm w/o slipping the clutch, and is more controllable is what makes it feel so fast.

The SurRon Light Bee makes 174lbft and it sure isn't that fast. The Varg will only be ~3x that. It should maintain that peak up to a higher speed so it will feel more than 3x faster. You can only put so much power to the ground esp through dirt bike tires.

The Varg weight has also gone up (10#?) over what was initially promised. It will only be slightly lighter than the Alta. Still not bad but somewhat disappointing.
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Re: New ULTRA Bee

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smdub wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:07 pm
Twist wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:53 am The 80HP version of it claims more torque than my wife's BMW X5 M50 (over 600 ft.lbs). At 260 lbs it's not quite as light as, say, KTM enduro bikes but dang, I have to wonder about how you'd ride a dirt bike with that much power? Is the intended use MX?
Not an apples to apples comparison. Many/most elecric bikes are measuring rear wheel torque. If you do the same with your X5 w/ its ~5.5 ratio 1st gear and ~3.6 rear end, you'd end up with 600lbft*5.5*3.6 = 12,000 lbft at the wheels.

Truth is, most liter bikes incl your 1250GS make more rear wheel torque than electrics when comaring apples to apples. The electric makes it instantly, at zero rpm w/o slipping the clutch, and is more controllable is what makes it feel so fast.

The SurRon Light Bee makes 174lbft and it sure isn't that fast. The Varg will only be ~3x that. It should maintain that peak up to a higher speed so it will feel more than 3x faster. You can only put so much power to the ground esp through dirt bike tires.

The Varg weight has also gone up (10#?) over what was initially promised. It will only be slightly lighter than the Alta. Still not bad but somewhat disappointing.
Thanks for the explanation Stephen. I assumed that the numbers were both measured at the output of the engine but even if that were the case the final drive would make a huge difference in effective force/accelleration i.e. apples to kumquats.
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Re: New ULTRA Bee

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Therein lies why I think they've taken to measuring electrics at the rear wheel. That is kind of apples to apples (amongst themselves.) You can design a 50hp electric motor to spin at 10k or 20k rpm. The 20k rpm one will have half the torque (at the motor) but with an additional 2:1 gearing to the rear wheel will have IDENTICAL performance figures. So motor torque isn't a good comparison. So rear wheel torque is a good way to state performance where the 'rubber meets the road'. But I think they are a bit dishonest promoting those figures w/o mentioning they are rear wheel and insinuating how much more than an ICE engine the numbers are.

The rear wheel numbers need to account for top speed too. I swapped a 60T sprocket on the LightBee (orig was 48T). That increased my rear wheel torque by 60T/48T = 1.25x but it dropped my top speed to 48T/60T= 0.8. So is it truly fair to advertise my bike makes 25% more torque than a LightBee and neglect the other difference? So you have to be careful comparing rear wheel numbers too. There can be gearing slight-of-hand to make one look better than the other.
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Re: New ULTRA Bee

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The Stark Varg has programmable output, and you can switch between five maps right on the handlebar. It can store up to 100 in the associated app. I actually ordered the 60HP version because it's the same hardware and I can't imagine ever using 80HP except a couple times to goof around and crap my pants.

Here's a video, released yesterday, of the Stark Varg at each of 10HP increments from 80HP to 10HP, compared to a YZ450. Let's just say the Stark Varg gets "favorable" results. :-)

Skip ahead to 20:28 to get to the good bits.


Bryan Haskell received the very first Stark Varg and has been putting up good content about it. Yes, it's intended as a motocross bike, but order options include an 18" rear wheel and with the power settings, I assume I'll be able to find a couple settings for tight single track, rock garden, hill climb, general use, etc. Hopefully at the lower power settings I'll be able to stretch the charge long enough to get a few hours in the woods. Balls out on the MX course, Bryan has been getting close to what Stark has promised, which is a 45 minute motocross race.

I just checked, and with bikes rolling off the assembly line, my estimated delivery date is still 30 September, 2023! I'll have to see if getting it dropped at JT's gets it to me any sooner, and if they can just leave it in the box or otherwise not charge me a "setup fee" if I were to ship to them.


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~Patrick
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Re: New ULTRA Bee

Post by smdub »

phoo wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:04 am The Stark Varg has ...
Wrong thread :)
Stephen (not Steve) - '20 Husky 701LR / KTM '20 500 EXC / '17 150 XC-W / '21 E-XC / '21 890R / '19 Sherco 300FST / Sur-Ron LBX / Segway X160 / Sur-Ron Ultra Bee
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